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Are you ready to find out how the world of TikTok marketing works? I have been trying to track down an TikTok marketing expert for the longest time so that I can try and work out how we might use this channel to communicate with millennials and Gen Z!

Finally, I hit the jackpot and for this weeks episode of the How to do Marketing Show I speak with the incredibly knowledgable Anna Kloth. Anna is a digital marketing and branding wizard for small businesses and she’s a TikTok whizz. Honestly, she’s like the Wiki for TikTok, she has so many facts and figures and knows so intimately how the platform works.

So buckle up, grab your notepad and pen and find out how you might be able to use TikTok as one of your marketing channels!

You can reach Anna here:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/annakloth/

thepineapplehustle.com

https://www.instagram.com/thepineapplehustle/

Interview Transcript

Jane: Hello and welcome to the how to do marketing show Anna.

Anna:

Thank you. I’m so excited to be here.

Jane:

I’m really excited for you to be here too. And I’m really appreciative that you’re coming to us all the way from California. I’m pleased to know that it is only two o’clock in the afternoon and that we haven’t got you up at some ungodly hour.

Anna:

I’m used to it. I mean, to meetings all over the world. So yeah, this actually feels pretty normal, surprisingly.

Jane:

Oh, good, good, good, fantastic. Okay. So to kick off our conversation, I ask all my guests the same question and it kind of relates to why you do what you do. So for you, Anna, what is it that you love about working in the social media space?

Anna:

Absolutely. I love marketing in general actually, because I come from a sociology background and I’m just interested in people and what drives people. And I really think that especially social media marketing, but any form of marketing really being good at marketing is about really finding the kernel of what drives people and what matters to people. And that just kind of falls into that sociology psychology background I have. I think it’s fascinating how people react in large groups. That’s that sociology side of me. I think it’s fascinating to really drive down into your ideal client and how to speak to one person. So for me, that’s what really where my passion, my love of people and my interest in and why they do what they do. That’s where all that comes from.

Jane:

Where I think that is more present, particularly in marketing than social media, you know, this is it. Yes. Marketing, you know, it has all the elements of marketing, but I think layered with that social side and the ability to kind of build relationships, but also see how people react, you know, cause I’m like you, I love to kind of really get inside of people’s heads and see what kind of drives them and what turns them off. And it’s fascinating. Cause sometimes the stuff that you don’t expect will kind of cause a reaction causes this huge reaction and, and vice versa. And I think on social it’s, that’s where you can see of this in real time happening. So yeah, I agree. And you’ve got some really great experience with all of the social media channels, but today I’d really love to chat to you about TikTok because it’s amazing.

Jane:

I have not been able to find many people I’ve searched far and wide and I’ve had to go all the way to California to track someone down that could actually give us some insight on TikTok because there’s many, I think there’s a lot of my listeners who are just still trying to understand how to use this platform. I think a lot of them are actually trying to understand why you would use this platform. You know, I, myself, I’ve got teenage kids and they’re like all over TikTok. Like they use it all the time to the point where it actually I’ve got this kind of negative taint on TikTok. Cause I’m like, it’s, you know, why, what do you even do? It’s such a time-waster, but can you just give us a rundown on what TikTok is all about and how it kind of differs from the other social media platforms?

Anna:

Absolutely. TikTok is to video as what Instagram was to photos. Instagram came out and really, you know, they didn’t just ask you to post a photo, but they said, do you want to make that photo look better? Right. They added those filters. And that was really like a huge part of that platform. And TikTok does the exact same thing with video creation and video content. So it’s got all of these different tools that you can use that are inherent to the platform. And it basically removes that barrier to entry of becoming a, you know, a video producer you know, think about the people who were creating videos before it, you know, smartphones have brought in, but even when smartphones were here, we just had photos. We were only thinking video and now TikTok has really turned this into like kind of the next step.

Anna:

It’s a natural progression really from Instagram. And it makes sense why the younger generations more involved in it. I would say one of the most important things about TikTok is that you’ve got all of these younger people on it. So it has its own culture which is a bit off putting for a lot of older people might be, I teach about TikToks, speak about around the world and my fiancé refuses to download TikTok, come on. But it’s also different because it’s one of the few platforms that’s not really as social. So it’s a, social media we do interact with other people, but it’s more about consuming content and really the algorithm puts it into a different world because that algorithm is brilliant. It can dial into exactly what you want. So any person who’s been on TikTok for awhile is going to have a completely different, and it’s going to work and to deliver exactly what you want to see. It puts different metrics and different weights on like re-watching rates rather than likes and comments. So because of that, it’s really showing you what you want to see, even if you don’t like, actually think that’s what you want to see.

Jane:

Wow. Interesting. So two things that I took away from that one that it’s not that, that social media, as I guess the other kind of platforms are where it’s more about that kind of interaction, you know, conversation, interacting with it, with each other or kind of liking each other’s contents and getting that, that validation. It’s more about the kind of entertainment side of things and being entertained. And, as you mentioned, kind of the way that you’re interacting with content, your creating your newsfeed of what will come through really, really interesting that their metrics are based around re-watching. Because now you’ve said that I think I reflect on my kids’ habits. They do, they sit there and re-watch and re-watch. And I guess too, because a lot of the time they’re watching those dancing videos or they’re trying to kind of recreate some of the entertaining you know, stuff that they do. So they probably have to sit there and re-watch it, re-watch it and practice and re-watch it. And that’s, I guess, what kind of propels that kind of content to the top of people’s feeds is that right?

Anna:

It automatically starts in a loop, so it wants you to continue. You don’t, it doesn’t move to the next video until you swipe it. Doesn’t just like finish the video and then move on. And because of that, you know, does it continue? So you’ll see like some hacks on TikTok where you can’t tell that it started the loop and that kind of increases that re watch rate. So they really look at completion rate of a video and how many times somebody re-watched it. And that’s kind of like the, you know, the algorithm hack that a lot of people are trying to use when they grow. Interesting.

Jane:

Wow. Okay. So it’s video. Is there any static stuff that goes to TikTok or is it everything is dynamic. Everything is video.

Anna:

You can upload like photos, but generally they’ll make them a slideshow. People are not using, like, if you’re using status on, it’s not native to the platform. It’s like airing a radio ad on TV.

Jane:

Yeah, you’re right. Okay. And so we’ve mentioned that, you know, obviously a lot of teenagers are using this. It’s really geared to kind of their brain and their way of thinking. And a lot of teenagers are digital natives. They’ve grown up with this stuff so they can navigate this stuff. I’ve got to say, I even Snapchat or watch my kids kind of moving around Snapchat and TikTok. And I’m like, I don’t know, how do you know even where to go? Like, how do you know what to click on? Like, I mean, it’s obvious how to like something or whatever, but I would not know my way around. I feel like that has been done a little bit.

Anna:

Absolutely. That’s why Snapchat caught on Snapchat was cool because you could only know how to use the platform. If another kid showed you and parents who had jumped on the Snapchat would not know how to use it. And it created this barrier. So it definitely has a small element of that.

Jane:

So teenagers are using it. Are there anybody, are there any other kinds of segments using it or is it predominantly teenagers who who’s

Anna:

Honestly, at this point everyone’s using it. TikTok is available in over 150 countries. It’s got over a billion users now it’s been downloaded over 175 million times in the US alone. So if your brand’s target is anywhere between the audiences of like, you know, ages of 13 and 40, I would even say higher up, we’re hitting 50 now. You you should be on TikTok. I actually went and got the most recent numbers because it’s constantly changing a while back. We were looking at all gen Z, right? That was the heaviest usage base. But to call it a platform just for younger people is completely writing off the platform in and not giving it that it deserves 32 and a half percent of US-based TikTok users. It’s 10 to 19. Okay. 29 and a half percent is 20 to 29.

Anna:

Then you’ve got 16.4%, 30 to 39 and 40 to 49, we’ve got 13.9%. Okay. 50+ is 7.1%. So you’re looking at above 30, you’re looking at about almost 37%. 40% of the entire usage is going to be over the age of 30. And once again, going back to that idea of the algorithm, feeding you exactly what you’re interested in. If you’re older, you’re going to find older people. And they call that actually, they have a thing on TikTok where they’ll be like welcome to older person, TikTok. And that means you’re going to like start seeing, and they start getting really niche about things like that. Like welcome to fairy, Woodland, hippy, TikTok. You’re like, I got real niche for awhile, actually a joke on TikTok about how you can enter these different parts of the app. Wow.

Jane:

Gosh. Do you know what? I’ve never really felt that compelled to enter TikTok, but I feel like I want to be accepted into the fairy nymph area of, of TikTok. It’s worth me trying it out just to get into that little tribe. I think. So where do you think the opportunities lie for small businesses looking to reach that kind of well millennial market given that that’s probably the majority but now, from what you’ve said, possibly other markets as well, but for small businesses, where do you think the opportunity lies?

Anna:

I mean, I think it’s more important for small businesses than large versus businesses to be on TikTok right now. And the reason is organic reach. And you know, I’ve been in the social media game now for 10 plus years. Since I got Facebook, when my first year of college, I was very excited because my college was one of the universities that you had to have that email account to be able to sign up for Facebook. So I’ve been on for a while and I remember thinking, okay, Facebook is getting harder to grow a Facebook page organically. Right? And then a couple of years ago, I remember telling my interns, Hey, this is the end of the golden age of Instagram, right? It’s going to get harder and harder. They’re going to start cutting off reach. And that’s what we saw. But on TikTok, every single time you post your video will go to somebody for you page.

Anna:

It will 100% be seen by other people. And it’s going to how that person responds to your TikTok and you know what? They watch it. They like it. They comment, they share, they download. That’s going to be how they decide if it’s going to go out to other people. So you have a better opportunity for organic reach than on any other platform. And anybody has a chance to go viral. So when we talk about this for small businesses, you know, if I go on Instagram, I know that it’s going to take me six months of work on Instagram before it ever have a chance of really reaching audiences. Right. I hear some people say, oh, you know, I want to go to 10,000 followers on Instagram, organically in three months. That’s not going to happen anymore. No, you gotta have a budget if you want to do that.

Anna:

But because all of these videos are hitting the, for you page, you have so much opportunity. And the other reason that I think it’s really important for small businesses to be on TikTok is that thing we talked about the algorithm, feeding people, exactly what they want. You have a great way to find your niche and niche down. So even, you know, less sexy businesses like financial planning, right. I actually was speaking to the financial times about this. If somebody expresses any interest in financial planning, they maybe catch one video and then it goes there. It’s going to start sending it to other videos that are about financial planning because that one person has already expressed interest. So it’s really much easier to be seen by people who are already interested in what you have to say,

Jane:

Right. Wow. And that’s happening organically. Cause I guess with, with Facebook and Instagram, and I would imagine with the other channels as well, to make sure that your content gets in front of people who are actually interested in it. And when I say interested in it that you know, that they’re interested in it because they’ve behaved in a way on a platform that demonstrate them, proves that they’re interested in it. But to have that happen on Facebook and Instagram, you need to pay for the advertising and then you select your audiences and do it that way. Your organic content is not guaranteed to do that on Facebook and Instagram. So the fact that TikTok have designed that algorithm for that to happen definitely works in brands favors

Anna:

Yeah. I mean, it does take a while for you to train the algorithm to say, this is who I am. This is the type of people who are going to be interested in my stuff. Right. So I need to show up consistently and to be clear on what you’re talking about, but once you hit that, that threshold, that’s when the algorithm starts coming in and is able to deliver your content to the right people.

Jane:

Excellent. Nice. So speaking of brands and businesses, who are the brands that are using TikTok really well and how are they using it? Well, because again, I struggled to get my head around how I would produce that content, which brands are doing a good job there.

Anna:

Absolutely. So I’ve got a few different brands that I love to kind of point out and they’re doing different things that I really love. So one of my favorite brands on tick-tock has been there for quite a while, and it’s actually the Washington post the newspaper. And the reason that I love the Washington post is because it’s kind of hard to be on TikTok and create fun, engaging content about things that are coming like news. That’s coming out to start off with. And you’re like, where do I start with this? But how they really succeeded is they chose a spokesperson, his name’s Dave, and he is the face of Washington post. He jumps on challenges. He jumps on trends. They bring in their own evergreen content, but it does work because they can jump on trends a little bit more natively because it is a newspaper about what’s happening.

Anna:

Yeah. So that kind of works really well for them. Another company that’s doing really incredible stuff is Fenty beauty and that’s Rihanna is makeup company. Fenty beauty is really incredible at building a community they’ve been able to show off. You know, they’re great about bringing in multicultural you know, lots of multiple cultures they’re bringing in different body shapes and they really highlight that on their TikTok. And really they know who their habitat is. They know who their ideal client is. So anything you post you, it’s just getting eaten up by that audience. The NBA is doing incredible work as well, and they just show up, they post four to seven times a day. They are producing huge, huge amounts of content. And they’re just, you know, I think they’re almost at 12 million now. So those are three companies that are kind of using it differently.

Anna:

They definitely, their accounts don’t necessarily look the same, but they are really capitalizing on what TikTok has to offer. As far as personal brands. Now, this is really where I think the most power comes from in that, you know, if you are a consultant, if you’re an advisor, we’re seeing a lot of doctors on, we’re seeing a lot of psychologists on TikTok and people who are consulting are sharing their expert knowledge. This is key. This is one of the best places to be. If that’s what you’re going to be doing, and you don’t need to do the trends and challenges, you can use evergreen content. You just, and it’s going to continue to perform unlike Facebook or Instagram, where your post kind of dies after, you know, a day, two days, three days you might have a Tiktok that gets picked up two weeks later.

Jane:

Wow. Wow. Okay. So do you have any suggestions of who we should follow be that person, people who are building a personal brand or even a brand, or even if it is kind of one of the influences like Charli Damilio or, you know any of those guys to get an idea of the content, because the content from what I have observed the content is so nuanced. Like I remember when musical.ly was a thing then, cause my kids had that at the time as well. And it’s a little bit, you know, similar to what you did there, it’s a bit different, but it’s a little bit similar in the same vein, but again, that was completely different to the other channels. And I think the way that I learnt how to use social media, cause that’s not something we studied as part of a marketing degree and that the way that I learnt how to use it was just the, in the platforms, like just be in the platforms every day, be, you know, use it, see what other people are posting, see what other people are posting. That’s getting a reaction, see what other people are posting. That’s not getting a reaction, you know, and that you learn by osmosis. So are there some people that we could go on people or brands that we could go and follow just to kind of immerse ourselves into that experience and understand what kind of content works?

Anna:

Yeah, absolutely. The thing that’s interesting about that though, is you really need to find your niche because different type of content works in different niches, but TikTok does use a hashtag system. So that’s kind of where I started. Cause I work with a lot of, you know, back when I was living in Indonesia, I worked with a lot of scuba diving companies. So there are very few scuba diving companies on TikTok at the time. But we started seeing what content that was out there. What could be brought in just like any other platform though, coming up with the type of content. I mean the first place that you should look is always going to be, what are the questions that you’re receiving from your customers? Answer them done, like any platform. This is still a social media, this is a social still social media marketing.

Anna:

So bringing in content that is educational, engaging you know, emotional, that’s what works on TikTok. Now you brought up a really good point about like, how do I find, you know, what’s going on in the culture and you really have to be on TikTok have to spend 15 to 20 minutes a day. Like when you’re not comfortable with it, you know, say I’m going to spend 15 to 20 minutes and you’ll probably just get sucked in honestly, like I’ll be talking like I’m doing the research and then like two hours later, I’m like, I need to do some work. But it happens. But I mean the average user spends 52 minutes per day on TikTok. And between the ages, I believe a four and 15, it’s actually 80 minutes a day, which is wild. So you have to be involved. Go ahead, go online type in like TikTok slang, in my actual course, the pineapple hustle, we have an entire cheat sheet called TikTok slang and like how to understand what gen Z is saying. So, because we understand that some of our older students are like, I don’t have an idea what no cap means or PSAs or like what are these eyes? And like mouth emoji and I’m like, don’t worry I got you, we’re going to explain this. So you really have to like be a part of the platform to just kind of understand what’s funny what works, but then you really have to go into your niche and search by hashtags to actually see what kind of evergreen content is performing. Okay.

Jane:

Excellent advice. 15 to 20 minutes a day. Wow. That’s insane. You know, usually I think I recommend it to clients to spend five minutes a day on LinkedIn. And even then they’re like five minutes, 15 to 20, but I guess TikTok is mildly kind of entertaining too. So you could probably get away with it, do that instead of watching a TV show. Yeah. So, what are the mistakes that you see? Cause this is, you know, this is fairly new. So, and I love the fact that when things are new, people are really innovative. They go out, they’re not afraid of breaking things. And then there’s people who kind of approach it a little bit more tentatively. What are the mistakes that you’re seeing that businesses are making with their TikTok marketing? What can we avoid?

Anna:

For sure. I would say that the key to TikTok, the real thing that’s going to unlock it all is consistency. And we see that on other platforms. We see that on Facebook, we see that on Instagram, you’re not posting consistently where the algorithm can depend on you, right? It’s going to ding you for it. And TikTok is one of the biggest proponents of making sure you show up. So I, any client I’ve had who started working on TikTok, the second they started being consistent, like every single day posting something, even if it’s every other day, but being there that was when we really started seeing the changes. So I would say that when you’re ready to start TikTok, take a big breath and say, I’m not going to just post one video when I’m ready to start my TikTok strategy.

Anna:

I need to show up and I need to start going, you know, batch all your work, but make sure it’s going out regularly. Okay. Another thing that I’m seeing businesses make a mistake with is only jumping on trends. The trends, the challenges are really fun, but they’re going to be better for personal brands for the most part. And even if you are a brand who wants to jump on some of the trends, the majority of your content needs to be evergreen and niche down and provide value to your ideal client. So if you’re only doing trends, you might grow a following, but you’re not going to find people who want to buy from you. And that’s the most important thing. So really make sure that you’re providing solid, valuable evergreen content. And then I like to have brands have a main spokesperson. I think it’s important.

Anna:

You know, when I’m scrolling through my feed, I like seeing a face that I’ve seen before. And I know that it belongs to them. Now I did mention like Fenty beauty and how they’re bringing a community of different people. So it’s not a hard and fast rule, but at the same time, it is very, very helpful to have like, you know, if you are a small business owner or maybe you have a marketing manager for a small business you know, even if you can just write outlines for your CEO or your owner or one of the people, who’s a face of your company, you can write outlines for things that they need to do. And then do all the work on top of the video. That would be really ideal. Right.

Jane:

Okay. Yeah. Great tips. Great points. Just let me deep dive into some of the content stuff. So you mentioned trends and challenges. Can you explain what they are and how they fit into the content for TikTok?

Anna?

Absolutely. There’s three different styles of content. I would say on TikTok, one is going to be a challenge to trends and those are going to be like trending music. There’s a lot of different things that come on. You’ll sometimes I hear songs. I’m like, oh, that’s a norm. That’s a TikTok song. My brother who’s really into music is like, that’s a normal song, Anna, it’s a TikTok song, but you’ll start seeing those. Those are going to be like the dances, right. So I got a lot of people who are like, do I have to dance? If I go on talk or even like the ones where it’s like my name, my sign, and they like point and explain those elements. That’s like a trend or challenge where essentially it’s a format and meme that you kind of just jump into or you have a new spin onto, okay, now there’s also another kind of content called evergreen content.

Anna:

And if you already are falling, if you will following this podcast, I’m sure you know what that is. Evergreen content is content that will perform today tomorrow, next month, next year. Okay. Never, it’s not time sensitive. And that’s going to be your value content for the most part. And then you also have another section of TikTok, which is called cringe and cringe is going to be like those overly endearing in terms of like, just being really honest. And it like, it makes you kind of want to cringe on the other side where you’re like, why is this person doing this? Oh my gosh. But TikTok community is actually extremely supportive. So this type of content actually does well on, on TikTok. Whereas if you put this type of stuff on YouTube, you’d have like a terrifying comment section. You don’t, I’m not saying that the TikTok community is perfect, but I’m saying that it’s a highly, because it’s so niche down. If I’m posting something about being a Woodland fairy, nymph, hippie, right. Other people are going to find that might be a Woodland fairy, nymph hippie. So they’re going to be more kind to me and me being like honest about I’m feeling. Yeah. So those three types of content are kind of what I think are the pillars of TikTok content.

Jane:

Right. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. And actually the content that I’ve seen, my kids engage with absolutely falls into those categories. Like I’ve seen them rolling around the floor in tears at some of those cringe posts. Like I can think of some of the Korean, I’m not going to mention them online because they’re gross. But they’re, but they were hilarious and, you know, millions and millions of likes and all that sort of stuff on the platform and, and the trends post like my kids, I can always find, I can always hear them saying, put a finger down if you, which seems to be a trend and you go through and obviously, and there’s a whole kind of page of all these people who’ve moved created these, put a finger down. If you’ve never kissed a boy, put a finger down, if you’ve stolen your mom’s gin and tonic or, you know, and it’s this whole thing that I’m constantly hearing, which I must just be one of those trends that you can replicate.

Jane:

This is great. I’m my whole life is falling into place now because I can understand some of these things that are happening. Okay, great. So you don’t have to dance if you’re putting stuff on TikTok, but you do have to create videos. Exactly. Okay, cool with it. I think too, what I really like about TikTok called what I’ve seen and it goes back to your comment about the supportive communities. I think, because it’s just full. I mean, I guess there’s all your influences, like your Charli Damelio, who are awesome dancers as well, but there’s so many people who are amateur kind of dancers, entertainers, creators that are on there that it’s, it’s unlike the perfectly curated culture of Instagram, where everyone has to have the perfect Instagram of will, but to have their bikini shot or their leaps or whatever, this seems to be a lot more raw and organic and you turn up and you can laugh at yourself and people laugh at you. You know, we view kind of thing as opposed to being a judgy judgy. So would you say that’s true a hundred percent?

Anna:

Actually, that’s one of the things that I love most about TikTok. When I tell, I usually go through like a three point thing of why I’m obsessed and one of these things is, you know, we started to see it on Instagram. We started to see this blow back to this perfect image. Right. We started to see the gen Z was putting out raw unfiltered images that it was via about being kind of messy. It was definitely an antithesis to this perfect curated life that we saw on Instagram. And along with that, especially with like the social dilemma coming out on Netflix we’re really starting to see some of like the horrors of social media. We’re starting to see like how a lot of people are judging themselves to these in these lives that aren’t even real. So I do feel that TikTok has kind of embraced that. And partially because it’s been owned by generation Z, who is seeing the millennials, you know, mental health problems while looking at Instagram photos it really about not taking yourself too seriously. You don’t have to be perfect. I’m definitely, there’s a section in there that has that don’t get me wrong. You definitely have your influencers around there who are doing that, but you’re also having, again, those really niche down communities that are extremely supportive. Yeah.

Jane:

Okay, excellent. That’s good. So again, just kind of trying to work out that type of content, and I think you’re right. We have to actually just get in and immerse ourselves into the platform to say it. But in a nutshell, when you say videos, because videos on YouTube are different to videos on IGTV, are different to videos on Facebook videos, on TikTok, I imagine a quite different, like there’s an entertainment kind of aspect to it. Can you describe the kind of content or the kind of videos that resonate as a whole in on, and I know that content is going to be different from financial planners to, you know, makeup. But is there kind of a bit of a formula to, to creating that content for TikTik?

Anna:

There are definitely some tips and tricks. You know, some people do like if you’re teaching a lot of people are doing like how to’s for cool like transitions that you can make the video look really good. Some people show on their phone, like, they’ll show you like a screen grab of them doing something. That’s something that does well on TikTok if that’s educational, there’s a lot of content on TikTok. That’s not really entertainment, but it’s like pure education or pure emotion even. I wouldn’t say that it’s like somebody trying, you know, gesturing in any way. But that’s a, a good portion of it. That being said, one of the most important things to think about when you are creating your TikTok video, is native to the platform content that looks overly produced doesn’t generally do as well.

Anna:

It’s not Instagram kind of like what you just mentioned. It’s got to use, you know, people like the filters that people use. You want to use the sounds that come there. You know, lip syncs are really, really popular. So make sure that it looks like it fits within the ecosystem and it’s not overly produced. And also at the same time, it’s not an Instagram story. I used to get this with my interns. Like that’s not an appropriate TikTok. You can’t just go ahead and a picture of a beach or show a video of the waves lapping that does not work. It needs to be pre-planned. And that’s really kind of what I think about with TikTok videos is it’s that video production idea. So no longer is it okay, just take a video of what’s around you. You need to think about what you want to do, what music is going to work with it, you know, all of these different elements.

Anna:

Are you going to add text on top? and that’s really, really important for a TikTok video. Yeah. Another thing that’s really important as we talked about that re-watch rate and that completion, the video completion rate and how important that is to how many people are your video is going to reach. So it’s important to keep your videos short and sweet. You don’t need to make them super long. If you have like one idea that you’re trying to put forward, don’t add on top of it. Just put that out, make it a 10, 12, second video. That’s fine because you’re going to have more people actually completing the video. And if you do have a longer video or, you know, even if it’s just 30 seconds make sure that you really start with a hook because if you take a while to get into the video, people are just going to get bored and they’ve got very, very short attention spans. So if you’re saying like, I’m going to tell a story, maybe this story takes a while, but you need to go ahead and put like texts on the top that kind of grabs people and makes them want to wait until the end to find out what happened.

Jane:

Yeah. Right. That makes sense. So it’s like I think that the examples you use there, which of kind of the lazy videos, which are perfect for stories, because they’re just little grabs there what’s happening now at spontaneity, but I guess the difference between those kinds of videos and TikTok is those talk videos almost sound like they have to be little screenplays, 30 or 40 seconds screenplays with the intro and the body and the characters and the, you know, the call to action almost at the end, but making sure that they actually take people on a journey to make sure that they stay engaged with the 40 seconds of content.

Anna:

Yeah, yeah. Or, I mean, that’s going to be more, especially for evergreen content. For challenges and trends, people know what to expect a little bit more. So that’s, what’s going to keep them on that video already, but yeah, for the most part, a hundred percent, your content needs to be premeditated. And that’s really what it comes down to. You know, these 10, 15, second clips take people. I did a dance video once I’m on my personal one and once that’s all I could bring myself to do and it took me like two and a half hours to plan this freaking 45 second video. So a lot of there’s a lot of effort that goes into these small clips. Yeah. Wow.

Jane:

Okay. That’s good. That’s really good to know. Advertising opportunities on TikTok. Are these effective, are they attainable for small business?

Anna:

Yes, actually right now they’re giving big credits on TikTok advertising. They have a business suite business center. And if you actually log in, if you’re familiar with the Facebook ads platform, it’s going to look very similar in the same way. When you start an ad, it’s going to go ahead and say, do you want awareness? Do you want consideration? Do you want conversion? You’re like, I’ve seen this before. Actually it’s really, really easy. I have not spent that much time advertising on TikTok, but what I’m hearing from my colleagues who are really starting to go, and actually what we had heard about a year and a half ago before TikTok advertising came to TikTok when it was just on Deweyan smaller e-com is what’s really doing well. So if you have a an e-comm product that is under $50, that’s going to be one of the things that’s most effective for your ad.

Anna:

And that you’re seeing the highest number of conversions on. The other thing that’s really important to understand when you are creating advertisements creatives for your advertisements on TikTok is to make sure that you’re making a TikTok and that you’re not making an ad. And that’s where a lot of people get a little confused because they’re like, I want to sell my product, but people don’t want to be sold to, especially on TikTok. So if you are creating an ad, make sure that it looks like a TikTok. Yeah.

Jane:

Great point. Okay. Excellent. That’s great. That’s great to hear that the ad platform is, is fairly straightforward or reminiscent of others as well. I actually hopped on the LinkedIn advertising platform again, having not seen it for a very long time and was amazed at how similar that was now to the Facebook platform as well. It just makes life so much easier. Okay. So what are your biggest tips for using TikTok as a brand or as a business?

Anna:

Yeah, absolutely. I would say first off is get to know the platform. You cannot skip that step. That’s so important. Post consistently is number two, you know, once you’re ready to roll, make sure that you are following it up, keep your short videos short and sweet so that you are getting that re-watch, make sure that you have a proper strategy figure out what your niche is. And don’t stray. Right. In the same way on Instagram, on Facebook. You know, if I have a restaurant I’m not going to be talking about travelling, most likely it’s the same for TikTok, niche down, figure out who your niche is and like any other social media platform. I know I said that TikTok is less interactive than Instagram and Facebook, but it’s still a social media. So, you know, I generally like to laugh because everyone’s talking about marketing, especially in the social media space.

Anna:

People are like, you know, change your hashtags. They’re going to change your life. Or like, if you do this, this and this you’re going to win. They’re like really the only way to grow on these is to engage and to be social on social media. And I think that our industry forgets that that’s the key to all of this. But it’s no different for TikTok. So and the last one would be, don’t take yourself too seriously. This is a great place to like put your personality out there to have some fun. And that’s what people are looking for.

Jane:

Awesome. Gosh, I’m like, honestly going to go and set up my TikTok account as soon as we get off this call analytics. So all the social media platforms have analytics that you can analyze as a business if you’ve got a business account. And so you can see how people are interacting with your content, who fault, you know, a rough kind of demographic guide as to who follows you when they’re online or that sort of stuff to TikTok, have that for like businesses. Do you have to have a business profile to get those analytics? Do they have them as a kind of personal profile? How does the analytics work?

Anna:

Yeah, you need to have a pro account and you need to have over, I believe a hundred followers to be able to have access to those analytics. Just like analytics on Instagram. There are some really important things in there. Especially like when you’re, when your followers are online, where they’re from your demographics, of course that’s really helpful for any marketer. For me, the most important analytics is going to be that average watch time. And that’s the average amount of time people spend watching your video. It shows, it gives you an indication of whether you’re maintaining attention and that’s really what I’m looking for. You can see of course, which posted best, you can see the total watch time, but for me, everything’s about that average completion rate that re-watched. So it goes, re-watch is average completion rate. Then it goes shares in terms of weighting those comments, and then it goes likes. So likes important of all shares can be downloads as well. So for me, if you’re looking at your analytics, those knowing that weighting system, that’s what I’m looking at.

Jane:

Interesting. Okay. That’s really good. Okay. The security issues. Whenever I bring up TikTok in my groups in my communities, the security issue comes up immediately. India have banned I’m assuming that ban still remains. There’s been a lot of contention between, you know, the US and China and data. And my feeling is that’s probably more political than it is, you know, genuine fees, security. Do we need to worry about the data security issues because I’ve read a lot of articles that just say you’ve got the same amount of data security issues as you do with any of the other social channels. What’s your take on that?

Anna:

This is a pretty political question, to be honest. India is partially banned TikTok because there are great political tensions. Let’s put it that way between the two, that’s why that’s happening. As far as data goes, I have actually heard people say, you know, they are taking a huge that Facebook and Instagram are not, but I will say that a lot of this is hear say because I’ve watched them, but I don’t understand the, I don’t understand programming enough. I think as part of it to really understand the difference. However, I have really dive in as deep as I can on this. And really what I think the biggest concern about TikTok is, is not a matter of data security, but more of the ability to push certain propaganda forward on the platform. So in the same way that on Facebook, and I’m going to bring up the US election because it’s very, you know, very relevant in the same way that they were saying that foreign people were pushing like specific posts and putting a lot of advertising money behind lies and specific posts.

Anna:

That’s the fear I think we see with TikTok, which is, will the Chinese government not allow certain things to be said, and will they push other types of content that maybe helps influence their narrative? Right. So for me, when I really think about is TikTok concern, I don’t see it as more of a concern per se, than Facebook than Instagram. However, the problem is it is run by a not, you know, a democratic country that is having some issues with tensions. And so I think that we definitely have to be careful a hundred percent. And I mean, this kind of takes me where I think is, I think we’re so far behind when it comes to technology, when it comes to the policies that we have around it, I think across the world, we’re living in the wild west around a huge number of tech companies. I know the US just found Amazon and apple and Facebook and Google as being monopolies. And I think, yeah, obviously so I think it’s the same problem as far as like controlling the information that’s coming out to us, but I don’t really see there being an issue for the most part as far as data. But I am also not a data security expert

Jane:

And that’s it, it’s hard for the layman to know because that’s right, there is so much, there is so much that we wouldn’t know in terms of the technical programming, as you say, that goes behind this and how they’re using our data. There’s so much in visibility. And if Facebook have become really good at kind of being as transparent and LinkedIn are quite good at this as well about being transparent. If you want to find the information it’s there, but it’s written in legal speak and in fine print, and it’s, you know, hard to kind of navigate through. It’s really not easy to find. So no one, you know, with any life is actually going to spend the time trying to get their heads across all that kind of gobbledygook. And I’m sure that’s very deliberate as well. So, yeah, that’s great.

Jane:

And that’s a great take on that and some good advice. I think that’s really pertinent. So I really struggled. So as I said, like, I really struggled to find someone who kind of really doubled down and had a really good knowledge of this. You have delivered in spades Anna, my goodness, your knowledge of the platform is incredible. So thank you. Do you have any resources yourself or do you know if there’s any resources, like if small business owners kind of really want to get their head around this space, if they’re excited about, you know, what they’ve heard in this conversation, are there any resources that you offer or that you know of that they can kind of go and read up on or do a course in or whatever?

Anna:

Yeah, absolutely. So the Pineapple Hustle, we actually spend three to four days. So I think it’s about 10 hours on TikTok. And we’ll take you from beginning to end. I mean, really like let’s log on for the first time and let’s see what’s going, let’s walk around all the way to creating TikTok’s and more of a strategy around it. So that’s already included in the pineapple hustle chorus. I do talk about TikTok tips on my socials. As far as people who I really love in this space though I’m going to go out on a limb and there’s a girl named Ginny Fears. And I don’t think she’s that big actually in the space, but she has done an incredible job on TikTok. So G, I, N, N, Y. F, E, A, R, S. Ginny fears. And I would definitely say that she’s not necessarily teaching TikTok, but I think if you follow her, you’ll get a lot out of her to see what’s working for her and like just kind of a different way it could be done. So that’s kind of one of my favorite people. And then if you just kind of, if you’re interested in learning more about TikTok, you’ll end up in that niche and then you’ll find some really interesting people.

Jane:

So tell me about the Pineapple Hustle. Is this an online program can cause obviously you’re based in the United States, is it something that anyone in the world can tap into and do kind of at their own leisure? Or is, are there certain dates? Tell us about that.

Anna:

Yeah, it’s an online course. I do teach it live once a year. But we’ve done it already for this year. Otherwise it completely lives online. So it can be accessible by anybody at any time. I kind of cover everything from branding to marketing theory, to social media marketing, to email marketing, SEO, to how to start your own SFM business. It really is extremely comprehensive. It’s going to take you from zero to hero. That’s goes on at any time and, you know, I’ve got office hours cause I really miss, I used to teach this course live and I really miss that. So I run office hours every week and just get to network with everybody who’s taking the course and yeah.

Jane:

Awesome. So is the course just on two or is it across all social channels?

Anna:

The course is across every single social channel we spent a week on Facebook, we spend a about three or four days on Instagram. So it’s like it’s 90 plus hours, the entire course.

Jane:

That sounds amazing. And so Anna, if people are looking to track this down or to even to get in contact with you, where can they find the Pineapple Hustle? Where can they get in contact with you?

Anna:

Yeah, absolutely fine. Our website is, thepineapplehustle.com. We’re on Instagram, we’re on Facebook. We’re about to launch a TikTok because it’s a new venture. So we’re super excited for that. So catch us on TikTok soon. And that’s find us on any of those places. Fantastic.

Jane:

Excellent. And I just feel like I have learned so much and so much of my night teenage kids habits have just now fallen into place. So I really, really appreciate and thank you for sharing all of that information. So generously not just with me, but my listeners it’s been fantastic.

Anna:

Good. I’ve had a great time and I’m excited to get more people on the TikTok train. Yes.

Jane:

Yes. Excellent. Thanks.

Anna:

Awesome. Thanks for having me.

 

 

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